RealNeko: 5 Years of Twitch, No Plan, No Quit | Ep 4

Neko started streaming in 2020 with a laptop and a $5 pair of earbuds. No webcam, no mic, no goal — just a creative outlet during the pandemic. 

Five years later she's built the Neko Nation, gone from no cam to VTuber to full facecam, and still can't bring herself to stop even when she's convinced herself to.

We talk about her origin story, how she grew organically without chasing the algorithm, setting boundaries with a parasocial community, and what five years of consistent streaming actually looks like from the inside.

🔗 Find RealNeko: twitch.tv/realneko

💬 Topics covered: Twitch growth, organic community building, parasocial relationships, consistent streaming schedule, variety streaming, going from no cam to facecam

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Transcript

Pre intro - Patty's thank you message

Speaker 1 0:00

Before we jump into today's episode, I just wanted to take a moment to thank everybody that has uh watched the three episodes of launch, that has left comments, that has just been so supportive, it makes me like so happy. I was super nervous about launching a podcast, and everyone has been so genuinely nice and appreciative. So whether you're here to support your favorite streamer, whether you're here uh to support me or the podcast, thank you so much. If you want to be extra kind, you know, subscribe on YouTube, leave a rate or a review either on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify, a rating and reviewing help podcasts so so much. So if you just have a minute, even if you listen on YouTube instead of Spotify, but you're a Spotify user, if you just want to help, it would mean the world to me.

Intro

Speaker 1:01

Thank you so much for all the support. Now, here's the episode in 2025 specifically, there was a time when I saw my numbers and I realized I made less money than I ever did, even though I streamed more than I ever did, and I just sat there like preparing for my five-year anniversary, going, Why am I even here? But in the end, it's something that I love doing, so I can't I can't stop.

Speaker 1 1:35

Welcome to the Growth Raid Podcast, the place where we dive into real streamer stories and find out what is behind the streamer. I'm your host Patty, and today I'm joined by Neko. Neko is a Korean streamer that lives in New York, and the more you learn about her, the more impressive she becomes. She's a robotics and software engineer by profession. She creates art, she's done acting, she has a photography Instagram, she travels and vlogs about it, she's held community meetups in two different continents, and somewhere in the middle of all of that, she has also built one of the most genuine communities I've seen on Twitch. Hi Neko, how are you doing today?

Speaker 2:20

Hi, Patty. Oh my god, you introduced me in such an amazing way. I was just like, whoa, hearing my own stuff.

Speaker 1 2:28

Sometimes we don't really realize how much we've done until you hear someone else say it loud loud like that.

Speaker 2:35

Honestly, like if I heard anyone, if it if it wasn't, if I didn't know it was me, I would have been like, wow. I was here going, whoa.

unknown 2:47

Hi!

Neko's origin story - engineering, acting, and why she started streaming

Speaker 1 2:48

Hello everyone. Uh, when I've met you, you are already streaming for a while. So I don't really know how that started. Why Twitch? Were you already on the platform? Tell us like your origin story.

The $2000 acting class and the week Covid hit

Speaker 3:01

Okay, so um, Patty did mention that I was an actor. So in 2019, I started acting because I realized I had gone into engineering for the wrong reasons, in terms of it wasn't for me. I went into it because I wanted to make money to support my family, and problem solving was just something I was really good at. And so I spent all this time getting ready to get a full-time engineering job. The first year out of college, I started seeing my bank account grow. I realized that I was the same person that I was a year ago, just with a different bank account. And I think at one point I burned out so quickly because all I was doing was work home, work, home, work, home. And my mental stability just went tumbling down. And so I kind of reached back to when I was a kid and I realized I had a dream that I wanted to be an actor. And I've had that dream since I was like a very young child. But being an Asian American who uh didn't know Korean that well, I knew I couldn't be a Korean actor, but also not having that Asian representation in American media, I also went, hey, I'm not probably I'm probably not going to be an actor in America as well. So I kind of gave up on that when I was a very young child. But when I remembered it, I was like, hey, I make a little money, let's try acting classes. And I started really training, really auditioning to everything I could do. I spent hours every single day scouring the internet, going on Facebook, going on like different acting websites like backstage and actors access. And then literally in one week, I booked three different roles, which is unheard of in the acting world. And I was so excited. But that was also a week before the COVID crackdown. So yeah. Great timing. That was exactly great timing. Um, so a few months into COVID, I realized I was going back down that spiral and I needed a creative outlet. As someone who was in engineering, I had a lot of gaming friends. And so I realized if I was gonna game anyways, I might as well stream it. Let's see what happens. I had no reason, no goal, no nothing. I started streaming in August of 2020. And I became affiliate seven months later, at whatever the math is, February 2021. So I've been streaming since then, and ever since I feel like my community has grown, I have grown. A lot of things have changed since then, but that is how I started.

Speaker 1 5:47

I actually think you mentioned in one of your recent streams that even though your bank accounts were growing, you were never spending money on yourself. So acting was like this first time you actually spent any of that on yourself.

Streaming with no cam - and the 50-sub face reveal

Speaker 6:02

Oh yeah. Acting, I think the classes, the first class I took was about $2,000. And growing up as a low-income family, that $2,000, I felt so guilty to spend it on myself. I could be spending it to help my family, I could have been spending it to help my parents handle bills. And also by then, I was also a newlywed wife to my community favorite, Mr. Neko. So there was a lot of things I was juggling. There's also a whole life story about that, about how um we married early to support my family. And there's this whole thing. So acting was the first time I ever did anything for what I saw as myself without any reason to help anyone else, just me. So when COVID happened, I remember being emotional and crying because that was the first step I ever took for myself. And I was thinking, wow, is the universe telling me I can't do something for myself? I I shouldn't have been so selfish. So when I started streaming, I didn't, I also did not spend any money. I did not buy a webcam, I did not buy headphones, I did not buy a mic. My first ever viewers will remember I used my laptop or no. Yes, I used my laptop that I already had. Um, and then I had a five-dollar like earbuds, and I would plug it into my my my computer or my laptop, and then I would just put it in, and the mic was the one that was attached there. Yeah, so it sounded very weird.

Speaker 1 7:33

To be fair, some of those, especially the ones from Apple, the microphone is like really good. Yeah. Also, one thing that I only realized because you recently had your five-year uh celebration on Twitch, and I did not know that you started without webcam or anything. I discovered this with like that huge video that you did. How was like the transition from you know, no camera and then you had VTuber? Did you do camera before you had the VTuber, or how was the transition?

Speaker 8:05

It was very strange to be someone who is an actor who's always in front of the camera and then stream without any. And people, when they realized I had that background, they would ask me, Neko, why do you not have a camera? Like you were an actor. But I don't think people realize is when you're acting, you're not yourself, you're acting as someone else, and you're putting up this front versus streaming, is a lot more personal. Like I'm bringing people into my home, into my thoughts, into my words. So I felt very kind of scared to put myself on the internet like that because it wasn't an acting role I was taking on. It was me. So I did no face cam at all, but then one day, as a very new streamer, I had just been affiliate for a month. Someone gifted, I think, 50 subs in total, just randomly. I was playing TFT with my friends, and I had to go, like, guys, sorry, I can't play right now. Something crazy is happening. Bye. I I felt well. My friends knew my friends knew what was happening, so they were like, Okay, it's okay, it's okay. So 50 subs in, I was like, I I I didn't, I don't have anything prepared. Thank you so much for your support. What could I do? So I was like, Okay, you gifted 50 subs. I'll I'll turn on face cam and do a face reveal. Way too cheap. Um I I did that, and people were so like excited and hyped that they gifted more. And so I did a Mr. Neko face reveal and they gifted more, and it was just crazy. I have never beaten that number of subs since. I think it was like 237 or subs or so, and I only had 160, 180 followers at that point, so that was huge. Uh, but still, like even though I did the face reveal, it still again felt a little more intrusive. So I didn't want Facecam to be the default. I still felt uncomfortable. So I started doing PNG tubing. I made a V tuber, and people like again, if they gifted randomly, like I remember someone gifted subs randomly, like five subs randomly one day. And people were like, Oh, what are you gonna give now? And then it became an unofficial rule where if you gifted five subs, I would turn on face cam. So it became like a thing where I naturally would get more and more used to having face cam on. And recently in 2025, I on a whim, I think it was someone in my community who gave me the idea, and I was like, sure, why not? Thinking it would never happen. Yeah, so I was like, yeah, in a month and a half, if you guys raise 100 subs, permanent face cam, why not? I did not believe it at all, and yeah. Now I'm face cam streamer, so that's a thing.

No cam - VTube - facecam: how the transition happened

Speaker 1 10:49

You never know what the community is gonna do in this platform. You really don't. It was a very gradual and then forced transition. I think I met you around 2025 because you were already doing face cam, but like interchangeable with VTubing. For me, that was the normal, so I never knew the the backstory of that.

Speaker 11:10

Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that I started because it was a matter of being scared of showing who I was. So yeah.

Speaker 1 11:21

You touched on a very important point. I think not everyone has that feeling about streaming, which is for you, you're not acting, you're being yourself, and they're bringing people into your home. There's so many people, especially in the VTubing community, but before that, it was also a thing where people come into not only Twitch but social media and they put a front, and like they're like they're you're themselves, that they're the version of themselves that there only happens when they're streaming. And and you have like a totally different perspective. And it's like in other things that I'm acting here, it's like it here is just me.

Speaker 12:01

It is really interesting because, like, in the end, no matter how many times I say, Yeah, I'm not really putting up a front, I'm still a girl on the internet. You take what I say with a grain of salt, but I know for myself, I don't really act when I'm on stream. I hope that I show that authenticity to my community. I like to tell people my true opinions about things. I am not scared to tell my community, hey, I'm not feeling too well. If I'm not as bubbly as usual, like, like I just don't feel good. I haven't I'm at a mental low. I tell people about updates about my life, but with my friends, experiences that I had with traveling, with Mr. Neko, with my family. And it's a very intrusive play thing where I feel like I'm talking to a friend rather than I'm talking to people I don't know on the internet. Because a lot of these community members, they stay with you for potentially years. So you tend to start having that relationship with individual members, but also just chat as a whole. And I think it's like it's part of me who I don't want to act. It's already tiring to be a person and to be alive. So I know streamers who say, like, yeah, my chat is, I have heard streamers potentially like say this of like, oh, my chat is like they complain about their chat, or they say, like, oh yeah, I don't really like streaming, but they're big streamers. So I'm just there, like, oh wow. I I feel like, yeah, like honestly, if that's what's working for you, that will that's great, but I can't do that. It's too much work to maintain a persona, and it's just not me. I I I want to be stupid, I want to be silly, I want, I want to bring people who see who I am and enjoy me for me so that way I don't need to create a community where I feel like I have to go work. I want to create a community where I can be saying to myself, hey, I'm not feeling well. Let's tell my community that. Let's see where it goes. And most of the time, I think like nine times out of ten, I go from super, I don't want to stream, why am I doing this? To suddenly I'm literally dancing on stream. And it's not because people paid me, it's not because people are watching, but it's because my community is just so sweet, so fun, so caring that they naturally bring my spirits up. And that's not me acting, that is literally me. And it just brings a little, it brings a lot of fun and whimsy.

Speaker 1 14:41

I think it touched in like two points that I find very important in Twitch is that one chat is always an extension of you. It's like whatever the community you gathered and the the personality that chats in a whole brings, it's an extension of you. So if there are streamers complaining about their chat, they're the ones you know that gather these types of people. But usually I have the same feeling as you, and I talk with other streamers that are the same. Sometimes I don't want to start stream, sometimes I'm like I'm too tired, my head hurts, I'm like exhausted. Uh but I force myself to start stream and I start chatting with them, and just the conversation lifts us up. And now we yeah, I'm glad I started stream. This is like a very general feeling.

Speaker 15:28

Yeah, it that yeah. I I genuinely am so thankful to my chat sometimes because some days I just don't want to. And when I force myself, most of the I've I think I've only had one experience where I was like, oh, I really shouldn't have. But having that only one time out of so many times over the past five years, I think that's a pretty good success rate.

Speaker 1 15:52

I know you to be very open with a communion. Are you ever afraid of like the parasocial relationships that is very talked, especially around Twitch nowadays, and like what to say to chat, what to keep private? Are you usually very careful with this?

Speaker 16:07

So the thing is, is parasocialness is just something that happens to all content creators, but it definitely happens a lot more to Twitch because in Twitch on Twitch you're you're friends, you're talking to a friend, and that's how I curate in my community. So I definitely have times where people say stuff like, Oh, Neko, I'm not comfortable sharing this with the community, but I'll share this with you. And I'm like, I take a step back and I'm like, wait, wait, wait. The only things I know about you is things that everyone else knows. So I don't know you any differently than anyone else does. And so a lot of people don't recognize that, and I also understand that because I lurk a lot on other streamers, and I definitely know a lot more about them than they know about me. And I also watch a lot of YouTube content and I know a lot about some YouTubers. They don't know I exist. I guess on Twitch it's different though, because those people are right there and those people are make up your community, and so I do have like spent like certain things where over the years I've realized like, okay, it's not sustainable to accept DMs from everyone because literally over the years, I've had countless people add me on Riot, on Discord, on Steam, and etc. And then a lot of people have DM'd me over the years, people that I sometimes didn't even know who they were. It was definitely kind of scary to kind of figure that out. And also, you also have that fear of saying, oh, I don't want to seem too standoffish. What if people take offense to that? So there is a lot of thinking involved, but in the end, you have to protect yourself. So I I have a blanket rule. I'm like, hey guys, I'm not accepting DMs. If you DM me, I will not respond. If you do message requests, friend requests, I will not respond. If you want to talk to me, please reach out in my Discord server. So I think that's what I try to do is when people want to start really being part of the community more, even off-stream, I direct them to our Discord server so that it's still public, it's still something that I personally care about. And I have a mod uh a mod of teams. Yeah, a team of mods that help me regulate everything, and my mods are really cool. So I think that's what I'm trying to do is hey, Discord server, discord server, and it's I think so far it's been very, very helpful.

Speaker 1 18:29

I think the only real thing that we can do as streamers is set boundaries and you know, make sure the the viewers don't cross it, because no one teaches our viewers how to be viewers, like because I've heard countless stories of people that you know go up to YouTubers or streamers and act like they're friends because they know so much about these people that they cannot get into their heads that we don't know you, even though even if you're in chat and we know some general stuff, like we're not friends, and we don't have like this two-way relationship, it's it's only one side, so but I feel like it it goes more to the viewers to really try to understand this because it's crazy out there, and I've seen so many uh awkward stories.

Did she ever want to reach partner? Growth, numbers, and letting go

Speaker 19:17

Oh yeah, I'm very glad where again I I hope it's because of the community I created, but some people in my community also call each other out when they see this, and I'm like, hey, they're protecting me. So it is definitely it's definitely a one-way street, but I like to think of some of my viewers if they're consistent, if they're coming through every single time and they're there even on the bad moments. Like those are the people where I'm like, okay, maybe, maybe I do consider you a friend, you know. But it's like those specific, like you have to keep being there, you have to show me that you're you care about not me as a persona, not me on the internet, but you care about me as a person. That's how come I've become really good friends with some of my viewers. So it's definite there is definitely like some things, but definitely even with those people who I feel way more comfortable with, even them, I'm like, Discord server, please, unless I have like explicit plans with them, like the meetups or something. That makes sense. Taking a step back again.

Speaker 1 20:18

You start the streamer for absolutely no reason, you just needed the creative outlet, but then you know the pandemic ended and it kept on streaming. Did you ever have like a plan to growth? Do you see yourself getting partner one day? Is something that you want?

Speaker 20:34

So I do remember uh way back when uh as I did start seeing growth and such, I was thinking, like, yeah, partner would be amazing. I would love to grow. I will be honest, I did have a skewed like view of what would happen. Is I was thinking, well, I never like explicitly said, hey, in five years, I'm probably at this number, but I'm pretty sure I thought I would have been way bigger than I was now because I'm at 1.5 followers right now, and my viewership is around the 20s, so still bigger than what I used to be, but definitely nowhere near as like near as successful as I thought I was. So while there wasn't ever a plan to grow, I was thinking like, oh, it'll naturally happen, but alas, it didn't really. It's it's a lot harder to grow on Twitch because of the algorithm of like discoverability and blah blah blah blah blah. At this point, I've realized I don't want to focus on the numbers because whenever I do, I get sad.

Speaker 1 21:40

So I said so much about numbers that it's just it makes it worse worse for us.

Speaker 21:46

Yeah, it was uh it was really hard to ignore the numbers at first. I feel like I've gotten a lot better about it, but in 2025 specifically, there was a time when I saw my numbers and I realized I made less money than I ever did, even though. I streamed more than I ever did. And that realization kicked me so hard. And I just sat there like preparing for my five-year anniversary, going, Why am I even here? But in the end, I just it's something that I love doing. So I can't I can't stop.

Speaker 1 22:19

Even though that now you have this realization that you you can't stop, you probably don't want to stop ever. Did you ever have that thought of not it's not worth it? I and I want to quit. Oh yeah.

Speaker 22:34

So many times. I feel like any streamer who is struggling with growth has that like battle with them back and forth. And I think every year since 2024, 20 like 2024, 2025, and even this year, I was saying, if I don't reach this threshold, maybe I'll stop. This year is the year that I'm gonna take put streaming in a back seat and focus on other stuff I enjoy. Yet I'm still here. So it doesn't work.

Speaker 1 23:05

At least not for me. If you're like me, you're just like, I miss streaming. I'm just gonna stream.

Speaker 23:11

Yeah, that that's essentially what it is. And it's it really does help that I tend to stream only things that I want to stream. So I do know, and I have heard of streamers getting burned, like very burned out because they're kind of forcing themselves to do content that other people want to see or something or something like that, or again, putting up a persona that they're not really showing their true selves or their true feelings about things. And I think it really helps where I'm like, I just like yapping, I am dumb, I want I I miss some of my friends, so yeah, I just keep going back no matter what happens.

What actually grew her channel over 5 years

Speaker 1 23:49

Yeah, that that is that is amazing because I feel like that is the right mentality, even if you never, you know, make to partner. It's like you're doing you're streaming for the right reason, right? You're not streaming because you wanna. I mean, I guess whenever when people make content their their job, they they do have in the back of their mind that they have to reach a threshold of money and they have to do it, but the when they started, this is the mentality they they need to have that they want they stream because they really want to, and this is what they really want, and not because you know it will bring money. But while you were streaming for five years, you know, every guest here, I need to go and stalk a little bit. You did have very constant growth for the whole five years. Did you ever do something to you know reach higher numbers? Because every year you you have a little bit higher average, you always have new followers.

Speaker 24:54

I again like because I never streamed in a way of like thinking, oh, I want to grow this amount, blah blah blah. I think for me it was just I focus more on myself in terms of what do I want to stream? What do I want to do? Because a lot of people get bigger doing things that, like, let's say a content creator becomes huge because they play a specific game. I cannot do that. I I need variety, I need I get so bored of things if I do things too much. I get super obsessed with like Minecraft, for example, for the span of the persona, but I was like, oh my god, persona was amazing. So it's stuff like that where I'm like, you know what? Even if my community doesn't want to see it, I do. And I think that brings a specific community of who's there for me, not there for what's on the screen. So because I have that, I think that's where the foundation of my community started. It's because they're there to hear me yap. A lot of the time we have an inside joke of, yeah, whatever's on the screen is just the background. The actual stream is me yapping the entire time. I think it's mostly just always making sure I'm excited for my own stream. So I think that part really shows off a lot where I'm only streaming things that I want to do. Because of that, I feel like no matter who comes into my stream, if they're there for someone who is experiencing something for the first time or enjoying themselves, my stream is perfect for that because I genuinely am finding things that I like to do. Like I just finished Outer Wilds um like a week or two ago, which was an insane mind fudge. Um but also Persona 5. Persona 5 Royal took me eight months to finish, but it was because I was pacing myself out of it.

Speaker 1 26:53

But it's a long game, either way. It's a very long game.

Raids, consistent schedule

Speaker 26:57

But it's like it's it's that kind of thing where um rather than focus on the growth, I focused on what I wanted to do. And so I think the numbers came from people who genuinely wanted to watch someone experiencing different things. And like even my art, I've been doing art consistently, inconsistently over five years. So I sometimes don't do art for months, and then suddenly I do mu arts for weeks at a time with no other break in between. I think again, I think that steady growth comes from even though it's a slow growth, but it's steady because people are there for me rather than what's on the screen. And I think that's the biggest part of what I want to make sure I keep up with my community is because I don't I want to make sure it's sustainable, not just for growth, but for me. Because it doesn't mean anything if I'm not enjoying streaming anymore.

Speaker 1 27:53

Exactly. So, you know, the the general advice of you know, having a consistent schedule, posting your shorts, all of the, you know, the basic ones, do you usually follow that or is just like you do what you want?

Speaker 28:06

This kind of goes back to your other question as well. Like, do you do anything for your growth? I tried doing events and stuff, it it doesn't work. Not for my community, I would spend hours planning for an event. And although again, a hundred subs is a lot, I'm not saying it's not, but if you spend hours and hours planning an event and you only hit a hundred subs, it kind of sucks. And so I realized I didn't want to put that expectation because it's unfair for the community, and it's also unfair for me because I get disappointed. Chat is now expected to do something that they never signed up for. Um, so there's that, and then there's also like having to do shorts and stuff in other social media. I tried, but I realized no one really cares to watch my YouTube shorts or my Instagram shorts because the people the people who are watching Twitch are there for me, but the people who are scrolling through don't know who I am, they don't care. So I tried on that for about the better half of a year, and I was paying someone to actually go through my clips and make edited shorts. It did not work, there was no engagement whatsoever. So I gave up on that pretty quickly. And then there's also the consistent schedule, though, that does help. People wait. I mean, some people don't care, some people just click your name when they see you on, or they just rely on the notification. But there are people that are like that know my schedule and they're like, where is Neko when I'm not there?

Speaker 1 29:39

So oh yeah, before before we started the recording, because I'm recording on OBS and I have like a widget of chat. There was something someone in my chat that I was like, dude, too early. My stream doesn't start for over like two hours.

Speaker 29:53

Now I know Patty's streaming in two hours. Gotta lurk. But yeah, I the consistent schedule definitely helped because people know when to tune in. And it also, I'm someone who streams in the early morning. You mentioned Patty, you mentioned for you early morning, for me afternoon.

Speaker 1 30:10

Yeah.

Speaker 30:11

Yeah. So 7:30 a.m. And that's kind of very rare in the Twitch space. I feel like most people stream in the afternoon and evenings. I like streaming in the morning because lack of better phrase to get it out of the way in terms of not because it's like a chore I have to do, but it's more of in the evening, I want to wind down, I want to like hang out with friends and play games. I want to be on the couch playing my latest obsession, Stardew Valley. So it's just like a whole like, I don't want to focus on what time is it? Do I have to start stream? So I like to do that in the morning, get that out of the way. So it's not something I have to do later. Because of that consistent morning stream, most of my viewers are in Australia, Asia, Europe. So that consistent streaming though also means that that's how my community can keep coming back. If I suddenly switch to evening streams, none of my Australian and Asian uh viewers can watch. I now have Americans complaining about to me going, NACO, I need to do it. I can never win. But yeah, no, because the consistent thing is so key, I feel like. So so key.

Speaker 1 31:19

But I think it's it's very different. You should always like for you, it works in the morning, but the the stream schedule should always work for the streamer. Like I could never because one, I don't wake up that early, and then I take like at least two hours to wake up. So I always stream after lunch. I wake up, I deal with pixel, I eat my breakfast, and I have my slow morning so that my brain can wake up and then I start the stream. Otherwise, I don't have but it's the same, it's the same if it's too late. If it's like in the evening, all my energy is gone and I don't have the energy to be. I feel like it's really hard for people that have like uh part-time or full-time jobs because the evening is the only time they do have to stream, but again, a consistent schedule through fear, it helps.

Speaker 32:09

It's also like definitely like I did try doing evening streams way back when I do have one evening stream just because again, I do have a full-time job, so that that is a thing, but it doesn't help to like you said, you can't really do consistent streaming at a time that doesn't work for you. So I know for a fact I cannot switch to three evening streams a week. I would burn out so quickly. I'd be I honestly think I would hate those days because I would be like, Oh, I have to stream now. Like I would see it as a chore versus I wake up and I'm excited at 7:30 a.m. going, let's go stream, let's go. So you have to definitely find a time that works for you, and the viewers will come to that time. You have to make sure anything you do on stream is something consistent, but also sustainable, not just for the community, but more importantly for you, because the growth will follow whatever you do.

Speaker 1 33:07

And another thing is that the streaming is like alive and it's it's global. So whatever time you stream, it will be evening somewhere. And there's someone out there on Twitch that will be able to watch.

Speaker 2 33:22

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 33:23

Yeah. Again, my most of my not most, I think like a good 70%. I should probably do a poll. I oh my god, I should go poll on my Discord server. Um, asking where are you where are you from? But yeah, I think a good portion are like I've never had so many friends globally before. Like you, like I've never known anyone from Portugal. That could not have that could not have happened had I done evening streams. Yeah, like I'm Portuguese also only watch Portuguese streamers, so you know we we are in the minority. Mm-hmm. So it's definitely it's definitely cool though, like to have people that I'm like, yo, I have friends in Malaysia, in India, in Australia, the Philippines, like how many people can say that?

Speaker 1 34:11

That is true. So over the the whole five years, were there any specific moments that you noticed that you know there was a jump viewer chip uh or something?

Speaker 34:24

Oh yeah, so a big one is just collabs. Um, so if you are talking to a streamer and they just really like they just become your friend, they introduce their community to yours. And then also you introduce your community to theirs. So there's a giant jump when you meet someone new and you genuinely make uh maybe not like the like like real friend connections because you're just online and you don't really like some well, most of the time you're not really like talking outside a stream. Um that being said though, if you find a streamer that whose content you enjoy and you go and they reciprocate in terms of like they're excited to see you, they check out your stream, they raid you, you rate them. That really, really helps. And thankfully, I kind of started with that, where I started by meeting a bunch of new streamers who were also just starting out during the pandemic. And so I feel like we helped each other grow quite a lot because any new person that joined my community also joined like three or four others because I introduced them to that, to them, to them, and also vice versa. And so there are definitely jumps in my stream where I meet someone who's significantly bitter, bigger than I am, and they shout me out a couple a couple of times. So everyone in their community knows who I am. So even if they don't follow me right then, a lot of the time they end up following either through a raid, either because they I got mentioned more than just once, or they decided they saw me and they're recommended and they were like, hey, I know that name, let me click on it. So I've had a lot of success over the years just by genuinely just enjoying other people's content, and then they find out I stream. That's like that's that's such a it's also a fun way to grow as well.

Speaker 1 36:10

It is. I don't know, I don't remember how we first met, honestly, but I know that uh a lot of your viewers are in my chat, and you know, it's I think you Yoda is the only one that jumps on your chat, but we raided each other a bunch of times, and that's like we helped each other grow like that, and yeah, we see people that we know in both of our chats.

Speaker 36:33

It also feels so good when you raid and there's like four or five people that follow the person you raided, because it's just like not one, you just put made me look so cool. Because I've had people, I've had people raid with literally hundreds or a hundred plus viewers and not a single follower. Like, it also sucks for the person being raided, because like, oh, kind of you kind of stop and like a lot, so many people came, not a single follow. Like, am I that? Like, you start questioning like in the middle of stream while people are watching you, and there's a bunch of new people, like you're just there. Like, did I do something wrong? Did I not make a good first impression? And then there's also the person who's raiding is like no one followed. Yeah, so when your community like follows through, really packs that huge like raid, it feels so awesome. Like, even if you raid with a small amount of people, if you're loud and your people are following, it makes a bigger difference in my opinion. Then like I'd rather get a 23-person raid or a 15-person raid with three, four follows and like people continuously chatting versus a hundred people raiding and they don't they just dip after. So it it really does it, it does suck when that happens. But again, it feels so good when your chat supports another streamer, and then it feels even better when you go back to that streamer later. I lurk on so many streamers, um, but it feels so good when you realize that two or three people in that chat while you're lurking followed because you rated that person or you introduced them to that person, and I'm just there like lurking while working, and I'm just like, yeah, that was me.

Speaker 1 38:23

I feel like rates can be a very double-edged sword because it can it can go very well, very bad, or or you can feel like it goes, but it also depends a lot on the types of communities because you know I've been raided by people with like you know 20, 30 viewers, where you know there's a huge spam in my chat with raid messages and you know, oh yeah, three or four follow and everything. I I've also had raids with like 300 viewers and not a single raid message in chat. So I do feel like it's a very it has to do with the community and not just the numbers and how many followers or not. Being on the streaming world for such a long time, people that have gotten raids of all sizes, we we start to like I don't mind. It's like I get rated, I introduce myself, I welcome everyone, and I say, you know, if you have to go, you have to go. And I continue with my stream because if I if I stop and think about it too much, it's not gonna be good.

Speaker 39:20

Oh yeah, that that definitely happens. I it it sucks when when so many people come in and no one follows. Because again, just going back to like you kind of question yourself, and that's not something you want to do in the middle of stream when you're supposed to be entertaining people and again making a good first impression, but it also again on the like what you said, double-edged sword, when there are people that stay in chat, it feels good because you're like, Hey, I did make a good first impression, these people are staying, these people, oh my god, this person followed, and sometimes they even become part of your community, and you're just like, whoa! It's definitely a fun part of Twitch that I appreciate. I definitely agree with you when it comes to like it depends on how the streamer is. If people are there to watch Twitch just for the streamer, then yeah, they'll they'll raid, but like they don't do anything. But I've realized, like, again, if this is a streamer that I personally know and I've been going to their streams a couple of times, before I raid, I like to do like a hey, this person is doing this, and like I try to say something that I know about this person. And I realize that when I do that, people are a lot more willing to check that person out, like with a genuine interest, because hey, it's not just someone I raided randomly, it's I recommend this person. So it definitely has to do with the community and how the streamer also portrays whoever they're gonna raid.

Speaker 1 40:46

That is true. Like uh before I used to just choose a random person that you know was playing the same game or whatever. Nowadays, I do take a moment and think, will my community like this person? And I always end up raiding people that are like like similar to me that act in a similar way, and I know how they are going to receive the raid because I've been there before. I rarely just run randomly raid anyone anymore.

Speaker 41:14

Again, even that's a double-edged sword sometimes. I feel like because if you only raid people you know, then your circle never grows. It's sometimes if you do put like sometimes you do find someone random and it just doesn't work out. It's like, oh, this person was different than I expected. Uh I'm like, I'm sorry for bringing you guys here. But there are also like times when you find a gem and it's just like, oh, I'm so glad I came to this person. So it really does help to like branch out. It's not as helpful to raid the same person over and over again. Like, for example, when I see you on, like, I do try to raid if I didn't raid it in the recently, but I try not to raid the same person multiple times because then I'm not really helping that streamer or me. But yeah, but like let's say I raided you like last week. If I raid you again, I'm not helping me or you because the people who are gonna be in the raid are the same people that would have already followed you had they been in the last raid. They already know who you are. And same thing with your community, they already know who I am. So anyone who would have followed would have already. So it's it's definitely hard to sometimes find people online where, like, okay, you have to balance when did I raid this person last? What is this person doing? Like, if they're doing an event or something, I'll definitely raid them. Uh, just to send some support their way. Um, but also like I do like tossing in new people here and there, but I do check out their like about panels or something just to like see the vibe.

Speaker 1 42:49

And make sure it's not a follow-only chat because otherwise no one is gonna say anything.

Speaker 42:55

Oh yeah. I I whenever I see follower-only chats, I immediately say no thank you. Because I personally don't think it's very good for raids. Unfortunately, there have been times when people do it by mistake and they don't realize it's on to not talking about a specific person. Oh god. But yeah, that has happened. Um, but it's it's definitely something where I like to vet people, like you said. And sometimes it's hard though with a random person that you just find because you're like, you don't know exactly what they're like. But I also sometimes tell my chat that I'm like, I have no idea who this person is, but they seem really cool. Look at their bow panels, they're doing something really cute. Like, they're come on, let's try it, let's make a good first impression. Yeah, and then like sometimes it doesn't work, and that's okay, but sometimes when it does, you made a new friend. And I'm just like that is true.

Just Chatting as a growth strategy and the variety streamer approach

Speaker 1 43:51

And I think the there is a functionality on the stream manager of Twitch to rate, and it opens a panel where you can choose, and it says there. If you follow them, if they follow you, and if you have rated them in the last 30 days. And I always use that so that I don't raid the same person. Okay, so as variety streamers that we both are, did you ever see like a particular game or format type of content? Because you know, we're do we do so many different things that made like an impact. It was noticeably different with your community and your viewership. And did you ever think I need to do more of this because it's doing well?

Speaker 44:32

Ooh, that's a good one. Because I've done so many things over the years. I will say for me specifically, it's just chatting that category. Um, because that's the time when people get to know me, and that's the time when people are active in chat the most. I will say there are like I kind of have the opposite of what you mentioned, where when I'm winding down from the game, like let's say when I finished Persona 5 Royal, um, people came in to watch Persona 5 Royal. I remember thinking, like, oh, I'm gonna have to say goodbye to some of these people because I'm pretty sure they're only there for the game. So Outer Wilds, for example, was exactly like that. The Outer Wilds fan base is very strong. People who like Outer Wilds love Outer Wilds. And so a lot of viewers, I think what they do is they go around other streamers and try to find someone who's doing their first playthrough so they can experience it over again. There's a Outer Wilds in particular is like that because you can only play the game once. So the only way you can experience it again is if you watch someone new play it. I do know for a fact that some people followed and then never came again because of the game. But for me, again, it's just not sustainable for me to do that. Like, oh, because there's more viewers now, I have to keep playing. Because out of wilds, I have the DLC, I need to play it. I do want to play it on stream, but I'm taking a little break from it for now because I just want myself to breathe a bit. Outer Wilds is so much to my brain. I feel like for me, I do that for just chatting, is when when chat is active, I don't want that to go to waste. Because I'm also enjoying yapping. Even though I have something to do that day, like I wanted to play a game or I have to do some art, in my head, I'm like, okay, chat is so active. I appreciate the fact that everyone's here. I'm having fun. So I'll continue doing just chatting, if anything. And I've also switched my uh streams where I do like just chatting in the beginning and do whatever I'm gonna do when chat dies down. So if I plan to play a game that day, I still start with just chatting, and sometimes I end up yapping for three or four hours. But other times, 40 minutes later, an hour and a half later, two hours later, like I realize that like chat has died down because people are lurking, people are going to sleep, especially if I'm doing the morning streams. And so that's when I'm like, okay, time to go into blank. So that's the kind of approach that I've taken where it's a good balance of, hey, I noticed just chatting works for me. I still want to do other stuff. So I've kind of gotten into that pattern a lot. And I've realized it works a lot for me and my community because we get our yaps out of the way. And then whenever people start doing their life stuff and they just want to lurk, I'm like, here, here's something to lurk to. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 47:27

I feel like um that is such a strong thing that a lot of people also realize like most people that I know now do this. That is, we start with just chatting, we you know talk about our day or whatever, and when you know, chat gets calmer, we jump into the game. I see most people that I follow do do the this same thing, but it's really hard for someone in the beginning to do this because they don't have that set community. So, you know, even if you want to do just chatting, you you don't have anyone to you know bounce your ideas from and you just have to go.

Speaker 48:00

Just chat too. I I know I remember when I was like starting off the first year, I was thinking like I would never be able to do just chatting because that means I'm expecting to talk to people, I'm expecting people to be in chat if I'm doing just chatting. And so being a smaller streamer, you just don't have that. I don't think that's a problem. Like there are days even now where there's no one in chat when I start. And if that's the case, 15 minutes into stream, I yap by myself and I'm like, okay, let's start. Like it seems like chat's a little slow today. Let's do whatever we want to do, and I go into it. And then what ends up happening for me specifically, because I curated a community of yappers, is I'll be in the middle of a game or I'll be in the middle of art, and that's when people start talking a bunch, because that's when people tune in. And so I draw a line, talk for 20 minutes, draw another line, talk for 20 minutes, erase the line because I forgot what I was drawing. Like, for example, I've been in an art stream. It does help quite a lot. And if there's no one in chat, like I don't think that's something to be disappointed by. Because again, do what you like to do, and people who enjoy your content, people who enjoy you will follow.

Speaker 1 49:10

I also always say if you if you want to pull the apps, you need to play a game that allows the apps, but you also enjoy the game. So Stardew Volley is a great game for yaps because there's like not a lot of stories, so you're not you don't need to pause anything to be able to talk. You can just you know keep farming while you're at yapping with chat. But there's games like you know, there's cutscenes and everything, and you have to stop to watch the cutscenes, and it's a lot harder to yap for me, like Persona 5 Royal.

Speaker 49:41

That there were a lot of cutscenes in that, but I kind of formed it as guys, let's watch this together. So, like that, so that's how you kind of direct that conversation. At least that's what I did. Sometimes it doesn't work, but oh well. Personally, like I do not understand how people stream Valorant or League. I'm just there, like, you cannot talk to chat at all. And I watch, I lurk on some of like Valor streamers, but like I do see that they do not engage with chat in that moment, and I think just kind of anxiety for me is like if I don't engage with chat, I feel like I'm gonna lose them. So I do not play Valor on stream, I do not play League on stream, I do not play TFT on stream, like any game that requires focus. I'm like, um, like Persona 5, you can pause, like, like there's no real like the cuts.

Speaker 1 50:35

You know, yeah, uh turn based. While you're choosing, you can chat.

Speaker 50:40

They will wait. Yeah, like outs as well, you wait. Um, and then same with like oh, but like in outer wilds, there were times when I had to like pause because I would be talking too much. Um, so any game that you can pause that also really helps. Uh Stardew, Minecraft. So like those games are usually pretty okay to chat with. But when it comes to like PvP, oh yeah, basically any PvP games, anything with the environment, you can pause, but anything to do with Valor, like you can't imagine being in the middle of a fight and just going, guys, hold up, sorry, pause.

Speaker 1 51:16

Oh team games like League or Endota, like yeah, there's no way they're not gonna wait for you to yeah, put chat.

Speaker 51:24

Exactly. Like, I think I did some of those games when I started off streaming because that was when chat wasn't as active, but it definitely is something that I stay away from now because I definitely want to keep curating that engagement. That's why I stream is so that people can see who I am, not see my gameplay. So I do think I'm gonna continue that. Although there have been times where I do play a valo game here and there because people are like people in chat are asking, and I'm like, okay, I mean, yeah. And then they actually like it is fun. Like it depends on who's in chat at that moment. I have on a whim just played a valo game here and there, but I'm definitely never gonna well, I don't want to say never, but I'm definitely not going to be like a Valorant streamer anytime soon. Yeah, I totally understand that.

Speaker 1 52:14

Thank you so much for joining today, Neko. This was like a very different type of conversation, very insightful because you know we talked about so many different points that I think it will bring a lot of value to people. So if people want to find you, where can they go?

Speaker 52:30

On Twitch, twitch.tv slash real neko N-E-K-O, the Japanese word for cat.

Speaker 1 52:37

Just one final question before we go. If I could have any streamer here in the podcast, who would you like to see?

Speaker 52:47

That's a good oh that's a oh no, now I'm like if I say wait, I didn't think about this one. Who is a streamer I would like you to see? Do I want there's so many good streamers that come to mind? Because, like, again, five years of streaming, I have people who have come from so many different parts of the world and are in different parts like different times in their streaming careers. Oh my god. Oh my god. Okay, someone that I would like to see on this podcast. I feel like this is someone I personally know very well. Honestly, okay. I okay. I personally okay. Now I don't want to say I don't want to see this person, but it's more of like I'm so I'm close to this person, so I feel like I would know most of their thoughts and most of their um answers, or like I would have a good idea of them. But I do recommend uh Brandon the Great. He is an old Twitch friend of mine. He and I started streaming.

Speaker 1 53:45

Does he does he do like that weird machine dancing thing? Yeah, okay, I know, I know who he is.

Speaker 53:52

Yeah, he he and I started streaming together. He's in the middle of a little break on Twitch right now because he's trying to balance some IRL stuff, but he's always had a very good mindset when it comes to streaming, and I always admired that about him. So again, I personally already feel like I know most of the answers or like the vibe of which he's gonna answer with it, but I feel like it would be very good to have on the podcast just for viewers that would want to watch your stream, and he's just very insightful.

Speaker 1 54:20

Oh, thank you, Neko. Any last thoughts you want to leave to our viewers?

Speaker 54:25

Follow me, following patty underscore TV on Twitch. Let's be patty fans together.

outro & credits

Speaker 1 54:32

Thank you again, Neko, and thank you to our listeners at home. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to give us a follow. You can find the Growth Raid podcast wherever pods are cast. New episodes every Thursday. And if you know someone who would love this podcast, please tell them about it. We'll see you again on the next episode. Bye. The Growth Raid was created, hosted, edited, and produced by me. If you like the show, feel free to rate it on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. That really helps a lot. And don't forget to subscribe to the YouTube channel. If you would like to listen ad-free and see all of this episode's bloopers, join us on Patreon at patreon.com slash the growth raid. We also have a Twitter, Blue Sky, and Instagram at the growth raid. And if you know a streamer that would have an amazing story to share, leave your recommendation in the comments.